Kirby Allan interviews Mayor Keno Hawker

Kirby: Hello.

Keno: Yes, this is Keno Hawker. -said you called.

Kirby: Yes, How are doing? I want to ask you some questions. Hold on a second. I've just got to lay this hose down. I'm just watering the garden. I wanted to ask you what you felt about what they're doing within the _____. There's a lot of it happening with them changing the system over.

Keno: Yea, from a City Manager to a strong mayor form of government.

Kirby: Yes.

Keno: I really don't like a strong mayor government because I think that allows the mayor to bring in all their cronies. The mayor then has the power to hire and fire the Department Managers.

Kirby: Yes. You don't like the mayor to be in total power?

Keno: No. I don't.

Kirby: Ok, why is that?

Keno: Because I think one should hire a professional City Manager that will stay and have expertise through more than just one term of office. The elected mayor could bring in business associates or people that are not competent for those jobs. I think it would be very selfish.

Kirby: That guy, what do you think about him? -Bill.

Keno: He interviewed very strong, had a lot of informative ideas.

Kirby: Was he a part of that?

Keno: No, he wasn't.

Kirby: That

Keno: No. That was kind of a downtown exodus to the suburbs. It was a change in power throughout.

Kirby: You think to be elected would bring in the bad things, huh?

Keno: I think if there was an elected strong mayor he would bring in a lot of people we may not like running the city, and every four years you'd have this huge change in office manager positions because they call come in and leave with the mayor.

Kirby: I don't know. I don't understand that.

Next call:

Kirby: I'm out in the garden. You don't like the mayor, uh, to be in total power?

Keno: No, I don't.

Kirby: Ok, why is that?

Keno: Because I think we should hire a professional City Manager who will stay and have that expertise through more than just one term of office. The mayor could bring in business associates or friends or people that are not competent to do, jobs. I think it would be very disruptive.

Kirby: You mean, uh...

Keno: A place like Spokane, Washington with a strong city mayor, strong mayor form of government.

Kirby: They just, they switch over three months before this other guy, what do you think of him?

Keno: ___, Bill,____?

Kirby: Yea.

Keno: He interviewed very strong, had a lot of innovative ideas.

Kirby: Was he part of that, changing that?

Keno: No, he wasn't.

Kirby: He was against it?

Keno: That was a kind of a downtown exodus to the suburbs. It was a change in power throughout the...

Kirby: So you think the elected mayor would bring in bad things here, huh?

Keno: I think if he was elected strong mayor he would bring in a lot of people we may not like running the city, and every four years you'd have this huge change in office manager positions because they all come in and leave with the mayor.

Kirby: I don't know. I don't understand that, uh. I know that the big union and corruption...

Keno: Yea, it's like Mayor Daley and the Chicago group. You bring in all your cronies.

Kirby: I know that. They've been doing that a long time, but what is the answer? To have all that power given to a City Manager falls right in the hands of another power too like they had, like the Phoenix Forty in Phoenix. What's worse?

Keno: Well, the power is either in the City Manager or with the five council members. If five council members what a change then you can fire the City Manager and bring in someone that will do your bidding.

Kirby: Yea, right now, probably, but maybe even not with the system that we have that knocked out the Phoenix Forty.

Keno: It's the Phoenix Forty pretty much lost its influence, I believe.

Kirby: Well, they lost it through districting, the district system, didn't they?

Keno: It's not my read on it. Paul Johnson was elected by the population that wasn't supported by the Phoenix Forty. He just kind of changed things after he was elected.

Kirby: He was supported by the Phoenix Forty?

Keno: No, he wasn't.

Kirby: OK, well, I don't understand what kind of government, uh, I know many cities are doing it but they're finding out too many false, that's too many faults where they're fowling up. It's actually just as bad as the other one or worse. They're getting sophisticated now, I mean, look at Arpaio is voted in with the people.

Keno: Uh huh.

Kirby: A councilman can at least get voted out if they screw up. I got to go closer to the unit here. I don't understand why, why you think the way you do on that, uh...

Keno: Just because I think there are a lot of pluses to having a stable management.

Kirby: A stable but not power, I mean, uh, you can fire the city manager but it takes four out of five...

Keno: It takes five out of seven.

Kirby: Takes five out of seven?

Keno: Yes.

Kirby: That'll never happen. There's always, with this system, control of at least two people. I remember with Pat Gilbert...

Keno: With the district system, you mean, or either?

Kirby: It doesn't matter. I mean these guys from the...

Keno: That raises a good point. I always want to switch that back to four, not five, to replace the City Manager.

Kirby: Well, the staggered system has broken up but there's guys planted into the districts. You know that?

Keno: I see them trying. I'm not sure if they're going to accomplish it or not.

Kirby: Well, there's a fair chance at least to water that down and be able to keep that position, East Valley Partnership. You're part of that, aren't you?

Keno: I attend some of their meetings, yes.

Kirby: You're not a member?

Keno: No, I am a member.

Kirby: Oh.

Keno: Yea, I have been for quite a while. I took a different stance on Rio Salado though.

Kirby: Oh, I know you did because it would help get you votes and it's the only way you could beat that Gilbert.

Keno: Oh, no. It was a bad decision on the part of Mesa's leadership. It had nothing to do with votes.

Kirby: But see, what that is, is inconsistent with your beliefs that the City Manager system is good. There's too much power there if you read into it and lots of people read things, but some people read into things.

Keno: Well, if it was a strong mayor form of government, and Pat Gilbert got elected, would you be pleased with whom he brought in for leadership?


Kirby: We're facing a situation now that we could either go the same way we're going or we could make a drastic change that needs to be made and the people are elected. You guys are elected to be in total command, in total charge. Why aren't you able to go into the administrative sector?

Keno: Because we work through the City Manager. That's the charter that we voted on and agreed to work under.

Kirby: You work through him so he has more power than you have.

Keno: Only if he's conducive. If he does not do what we tell him to do, what he's instructed to do, then we'll get somebody who will.   

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